With the Queen visiting Dublin and the Republic considering joining the Commonwealth of Nations, is Ireland crossing a threshold? Lewis Holden comments.
The Queen is making an historic visit to Ireland this week, the first time a reigning British monarch has visited Dublin in more than 100 years. The visit represents the crossing of the threshold for the Irish people — and perhaps another threshold may soon be crossed.
In October, the people of Ireland will go to the polls to elect their head of state, the President of Ireland. Currently leading the race is independent senator David Norris, an openly gay candidate who has gained his nomination from four county councils across Ireland. The contrast with the secretive way Governors-General are selected and dismissed by Prime Ministers couldn’t be greater.
But the really interesting thing about Norris is his view that the Republic of Ireland should join the Commonwealth. While the Irish presidency is a non-executive position, the president can openly discuss issues of national identity. Indeed, it’s refreshing to see that a candidate for the presidency can openly argue for (or against) something like an international organisation. Compare that, again, with the position of the Governors-General. Whenever they take a view on anything, it apparently imperils the “neutrality” of the Crown.
In May last year, Norris spoke at the launch of a book calling for Ireland’s membership of the association. He argued that the Queen’s role in the organisation is today simply “titular” and that the Commonwealth provides financial, political and sporting links Ireland otherwise misses out on. The senator also correctly identified that today the majority of members of the Commonwealth are republics.
This wasn’t the case when Ireland became ineligible for membership on April 18, 1949. When Ireland declared itself a republic the British Commonwealth – as it was then known – required all members to be “united by a common allegiance to the [British] Crown” as per the Statute of Westminster 1931. Ireland’s declaration was signalled at the 1948 Commonwealth Prime Minister’s Conference (the forerunner of the modern Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, itself renamed because of republican membership), along with India. Indian Prime Minister Nehru told the conference India’s new constitution would declare that country a republic by 1950. The Prime Ministers were unable to reach agreement on how to handle republican members of the Commonwealth. In the meantime, Ireland declared its republican status on April 18 and excluded itself from the British Commonwealth.
Ten days later, on 28 April, a hurriedly arranged second Prime Minister’s conference agreed to a compromise on the issue of allegiance to the Crown by creating the “Head of the Commonwealth”, a position held by the British Monarch. This was the so-called London Declaration. India remained a member as a republic, followed in close succession by a number of African states. The only requirement was republican members re-apply for membership on becoming republics, which was later scrapped in 2007.
This loophole was used by apartheid South Africa and Rabuka’s Fiji to leave the Commonwealth on declaring themselves republics. Neither reapplied for membership until after political reform took place in each country (Fiji remains suspended because of the 2006 coup, led, ironically by a monarchist commodore of the Fijian navy). The loophole is often cited by monarchists as some sort of mechanism to exclude Australia (or New Zealand or Canada) from the Commonwealth should we become republics. Sadly, looking at the popular perceptions of the Commonwealth and monarchy (such as a recent New Zealand Herald poll asking whether New Zealanders should keep the Queen and Commonwealth membership versus becoming a republic, for example), putting that lie to bed will still take some time.
So, Ireland’s non-membership of the Commonwealth is largely an accident of history that has never been corrected. The reason for this is something of a mystery, but it’s obvious that there is continuing ill-feeling towards the former British Empire. The Commonwealth is wrongly seen as the inheritor of this legacy. In fact, the modern Commonwealth is the antithesis of an Empire. As a voluntary organisation of sovereign states, the Commonwealth is the most practical expression of our common heritage. We also get the Commonwealth Games, an excellent opportunity for our athletes to compete on the world stage.
Unlike retaining the British the monarchy, Commonwealth membership does not undermine our sense of national identity. It would not prevent us from having a head of state of our own — indeed most of the arguments for retaining our “British heritage” relate to the benefits we accrue from the monarchy.
It’s not hard to see why David Norris wants Ireland to join the modern Commonwealth. Perhaps most importantly, Ireland’s membership of the Commonwealth would provide a boost to republicans in Australia. Here is a state that gradually removed the British monarchy from its Constitution and transitioned to a republic. The Republic of Ireland is probably the most-cited example of a successful Westminster-style parliamentary republic. The office Norris is running for is a great example of what a “president of Australia” could look and act like (and, of course, what they wouldn’t do as detractors claim). Being able to add “in the Commonwealth” to that increases the authority of that proposition greatly. We should welcome the Irish back into the Commonwealth with open arms.







19 Comments
Excellent post, Lewis.
It is worth noting that in several countries (Austria, Finland, Iceland) the President is nominated by the people (6000, 20 000 and 1500 signatures respectively). In Ireland, the people, at least informally, nominate the Presidential candidate: 30 000 petitions flooded the various councils and Houses of Parliament in the case of Norris, which in turn forced the Councils formally nominated (historically, the candidate was nominated by the parties without very much input from the people – this seems to have changed since Mary Robinson has become President). So if there is direct-election, we may as well allow the people to nominate the candidates – rather than the Irish approach of using Councils and other filterative proxies for what should be the will of the people.
Exactly. This is the biggest flaw with the Irish system – the parties control the nomination process.
“Indeed, it’s refreshing to see that a candidate for the presidency can openly argue for (or against) something like an international organisation. Compare that, again, with the position of the Governors-General. Whenever they take a view on anything, it apparently imperils the “neutrality” of the Crown.”
If the head of state is not executive, then they should keep their opinions to themselves, otherwise they risk alienating a large section of the community. As the head of state is largely ceremonial, what their opinion is should remain private.
Commenting of the joining of the Commonwealth may be a small, relatively uncontroversial thing. However if one head of state starts to make their positions known, then the practice could very well become more and more political.
“Unlike retaining the British the monarchy, Commonwealth membership does not undermine our sense of national identity.” my family came on the first fleet, in fact I don’t have any ancestor who hadn’t arrived here in the last hundred years. I do not feel that my national identity is undermined by the Queen, nor to majority of people, so don’t argue it as a fact.
“The Republic of Ireland is probably the most-cited example of a successful Westminster-style parliamentary republic”, it may be successful in terms of stability, but not economically.
“If the head of state is not executive, then they should keep their opinions to themselves, otherwise they risk alienating a large section of the community. As the head of state is largely ceremonial, what their opinion is should remain private”.
I agree. Time Quentin Byrce should shut the hell up about corporate quotas for women, codification of the reserve powers, Australia becoming a Republic, ratifying international gender conventions, and her advocacy for equal pay for equal work. Also the Queen should not have advocated expanding Commonwealth membership, contradicting Margaret Thatcher’s policy of limiting it to existing members, nor should she have said that she will take up the complaints of the Miners with Thatcher,* and Charles most certainly should not be promoting green energy and a crusade against global warming. William Deane should not have advocated land rights for Indigenous Australians; Dame Silva should not give speeches advocating making smacking a crime; Paul Reeves should not have said Rogernomics kills mortality and “stratifies” our soceity by making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Shame on all our Governor-Generals’ and the monarchs who speak out! How dare they show leadership above politics by exposing their personal private views.
“However if one head of state starts to make their positions known, then the practice could very well become more and more political”.
Like – ignoring the advice of your PM after the request you not to accept petitions because your government is accused of being racist?
As for economics, let’s see how much house prices fall here (given they have started to do so); but if you were to take a snapshot of Australia in 1991 with its 11.4% unemployment or in 1890 with its 22% unemployment, or indeed during the 1970s were unemployment remained at a stubbornly high rate by historical standards, you’d conclude much the same – Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Iceland, Ireland were doign much matter. The point is there woes are contingent, but the EU is the problem (cf. Icelandic response to the banking crisis, with the UK and Ireland). The Irish have a higher GDP per capita then we do ($52 000 v 42 279), and keep in mind it grew at like 7% per year in same cases, hence the title “Celtic Tiger”.
* The frosty relationship between the monarch and Thatcher, who was prime minister from 1979 to 1990, was first reported by The Sunday Times in 1986. The article revealed the Queen’s concerns over the divisiveness of Thatcher’s social policies and the strain that her refusal to agree sanctions against apartheid-era South Africa was putting on her beloved Commonwealth.
[...] Interesting article ive come across it's an australian view on ireland rejoining the commonwealth The Queen in Dublin and Ireland in the Commonwealth? | Independent Australia [...]
[...] Intersting article ive come across about ireland rejoining the commonwealth, it give an australian perspective and it's a positive one The Queen in Dublin and Ireland in the Commonwealth? | Independent Australia [...]
This is a superb piece and David Flint should take note. He continus with the outright li that we will be kicked out of the Commonwealth when we become a republic. We wont’; and that’s that – of course there are those who would day ” so what?” if we were.
@ Barry, David Flint hasnt said that since the law was changed.
@ Publius, yes Quentin SHOULD keep her mouth shut. She isnt a politician, if she wants quotas she should enter a position were its in her powers to implement one. Her role is to unite the nation, not divide it. Personally I dont believe in quotas for anyone, and a large % of the population agrees with me.
The Queen talking about the Commonwealth, is a different matter. Being head of the Commonwealth and suppourting for it to be expanded are not controversial, also her role as Head of the Commonwealth is seperate to her other roles as HOS.
Prince Charles is not a HOS. When he becomes a king, his personal views should only be directed to ministers, and not aired in public.
Accepting petitions, simply shows your willing to listen.
I never argued why Ireland is in the toilet, simply stated it was.
Also the Queen can also have private disscussions with the PM, and have differing views. Its not in public.
I agree – and if you tally it up GG’s are more outspoken than some non-executive directly-elected Heads of State. So as I said, there is no profound difference between DE and GG.
The same with the Queen: she gives speeches often painted as contradicting government policy, sometimes stories of these private meetings leak (“The Queen is the sort of women who would vote for the Socialist Democratic Party” – Thatcher), or promises to take up the issues with people (e.g. the miners). Re: the petitions when she visited the miners, she told them their efforts “shall be acted upon and she would see to addressing their claims(of course, Thatcher just ignored it).
Foreign affairs and relations is a serious policy issue, and in the case of South Africa, her role as an impartial Head of State and Head of the Commonwealth were questioned and her duties came into conflict (Head of Government says no, Sovereign says yes). There is an interplay between the two issues, especially if the duties cross path. Shit happens. Likewise, there were also issues early in her reign in an attempt to appoint people who she liked in the event of a hung Parliament and the death / illness of the PM: MacMillan (although that was changed with issues over the CP appointment mechanism) and under an Australian Republic this can be dealt with via constructive motions of no confidence.
Your point about Charles applies equally with Norris: he is not the President yet. When he becomes a President, his personal views should indeed only be directed to ministers, and not aired in public (although we all know what Charles IS thinking given he’s written books, given hundreds of speeches and the like – especially if he continues to lead by example on green issues). All this has yet to be seen.
If Ireland is a toilet, Spain with its 21% unemployment is the faeces. Same with UK (once you use the same measure as other countries its unemployment really at at 9%), Canada’s peaked at 8 and so forth; in all cases it must be one expensive toilet. Perhaps the sought at Buckingham Palace? And again, doesn’t veto the point that Ireland is still *RICHER* than us per capita, or for that matter, richer than the UK.
Lets get one thing straight Ireland is in the toilet. They have a debt so large they can NEVER pay it off. Im not one of these liberal “any debt is too large” people either. I relise a bit of debt is ok e.g. like Australia. My deffinition of in the toilet is a country that can never pay of its debt, their economy and living standards will suffer because of it. But this is besides the point, I was merly pointing out that whilst you can say Ireland has been stable, you cant say that it is an economic success due to its economy, it may have been 5yrs ago, but not know.
The Queens role as head of the Commonwealth is seperate to her role as Head of state.
I agree whilst the man isnt president he can promote his ideals as much as he wants. I was saying that when his president he can keep those opinions to himself and the relevant ministers behind closed doors.
Your right that things get leaked, but theres nothing the Queen can do about it. Im sure she would much prefer if her private conversations were kept private. Our relaxed laws on privacy purhaps need updating due to the modern attitude of journalists.
The difference between an President who was elected to the GG, is the elected president has to be elected on something, people dont just vote for someone for no reason, they vote on the persons views and what the person says they will get done. As such an elected President has a mandate. They may not use that mandate, but the risk is always there.
Ireland can and will pay their debt back. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Aren’t you a vet student?
“The difference between an President who was elected to the GG, is the elected president has to be elected on something, people dont just vote for someone for no reason”
Yeah, the reason being David Norris is a nice guy. That’s what non-executive directly-elected Presidents’ get elected on: values that transcend class and region, outstanding achievements, intelligence and a warm, endearing personality. What views has Norris said he is going to run on and implement? Name 20. How can he implemented them? Which clause of the Irish Constitution you are pointing to so this “risk” can come to fruition? What substantative source of power are you referring to? What if they say they are going to build bridges by meeting with people, having tea with people of all races, religions and class? (Like Mary McAleese – btw, all Presidents’ of Ireland’s speeches etc are vetted by the government before hand). The mandate is by no means political, but spirtual in nature. It’s metaphysical, not material in nature – and the President of Ireland, unlike our GG, cannot arbitrary dismiss a government over policy disagreement (Parliament appoints the Head of Gov) – and the risk is certainly there and has occured many times in our history (e.g. with Gerard Holman).
As for Norris, all he has said is he thinks, in a very friendly way, given the Queen is visiting, that we should move beyond any conceptions of Britain v Ireland, and look at our common, yet different, heritage. That’s a unifying message. Former GG’s of Trinidad and Tobago have said much the same in their transition to a Republic. And I agree he should not say anything when President – just like Charles should not be a hippie when he is King.
“The Queens role as head of the Commonwealth is seperate to her role as Head of state”
Agreed, but doesn’t mean they can’t conflict.
“Our relaxed laws on privacy purhaps need updating due to the modern attitude of journalists”.
I’m sure private secretaries have leaked as well!
As for Ireland, I agree with you they should revert back to their own currency (and all existing debts be denominated in their old currency – although if I were Ireland’s I’d say get stuffed, we’re defaulting). Then it will no longer be in the toilet, because when you are the monopoly issuer of your own currency you can NEVER be insolvent and meet any debts denominated in your own currency (subject to political issues e.g. dropping a bomb when in 1945 Japan refused to pay its American bond holders). But just ask Japan with its 200% debt to GDP ratio. Click. Click. Click. But I still regard Ireland as reasonable: as I said, repeating the word “shit” doesn’t change the fact a) its growing as fast as the UK (approx. 1%), b) its tax system is competitive (low corporate taxes, tax haven and they have introduced a property tax to limit future speculation), c) it still has a very high GDP per capita. I’d be more worried about Spain, given I doubt it will have the cashflows to meet its obligations in Euro.
@ DD, the Irish debt is growing faster than their economy. For them to pay it off, their economy must grow at a monstrous rate. Yep I do vet science, so what? It’s one of the hardest courses to get into and one of the hardest courses to continue with, that’s not just in Australia but the world, all in all were a pretty smart bunch. In fact my mother did vet, now she’s an Associate Professor and a world expert in infectious diseases etc. What do you do that makes you an expert, your an economist?
@Publius, why would anyone run for the role of president if they can’t make a difference? Being appointed President would be a great honour, running for president would cost millions upon millions of dollars. Are you really trying to tell me that the mining industry wouldn’t be up a candidate? That the union’s wouldn’t put up a candidate?
What’s to stop say a mining backed president blocking a mining tax, by saying I was elected to do so?
I’m against non-executive presidents voicing their opinions, something the author seems to be in favour of.
Your right there may be a conflict with the two positions as HOS and Head of the Commonwealth, unfortunately the only way to stop that is by stopping being the head of the commonwealth.
I’m sure private secretaries have leaked, and it annoys me greatly that it happens, a person’s private business is theirs alone. Like that recent NSW minister who was ousted as being gay – the media over steeped their mark, it was horrible.
If Ireland defaulted, it may cause more problems than it would solve e.g. no one lending them money or investing in Ireland due to the thinking their bad for it.
The debt isn’t issued in Irish currency? They can’t just swap and pick. The difference between Spain and Ireland, that although Spain is going quite cr*p, it hasn’t taken on too much debt. Though Spain is thought to be the next nation to fall, if one does, so we will wait and see.
I’ll tell you why I know much, much, more about this than you Mark – it’s because I have university and professional qualifications in business and finance and worked in the finance industry for 2 decades in Australia, the UK, France, the US, Japan and Switzerland, for some of the biggest banks in the world including UBS, Mizuho, Balclays Capital, Merrill-Lynch and Nat-West Global Markets. So, yes, I am a bit of an expert in this area and, yes, to all intents and purposes, I am an economist. That’s why I know you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t learn about economics in vet science, no matter how hard it is to get into, and certainly not as a callow 20-year-old. The Irish economy’s fundamentals are fine and it won’t default. It may be in debt for a while but, eventually, it will pay it all back. Mark my words, Mark.
DD im going off what has been reported in the news, but economists. I hope your right, because the Irish never paying of their debt isnt a good thing (except for banks). But they will at least take a bloody long time to pay it off.
We actually do learn economics in vet
@ Mark
Economists who couldn’t even predict the global financial crisis….
Directly-elected President’s can indeed make it a difference: aspirtual and emotional one. That’s what all the Presidents’ of Austria, Ireland, Iceland have done. That is why they run. With your veto power example, you need to show which clause in the constitution you are refering to i.e. what substantative head of power are you pointing to? The reality is this: the example you gave is not possible under the Irish constitution as the President cannot veto a law, nor does it require his or her signature for a law to take a effect, but the President CAN refer a bill to the Constitutional Court to tests its ‘constitutionality’, but only once per bill. Likewise, it was only in the last 10 years the referal power in the Iceland Constitution (Art. 26) was used – mind you, against corporate interests and bankers. So much for your “dooms day” horror scenario. I have consistently asked you to name substantive clause which allows for a mandate to be implemented: the reality is they can’t. Unlike in France, the Irish President cannot introduce legislation, he cannot veto bills, he cannot ratify treatises without a referendum.
And that is precisely what I am saying: if it was an executive office, they – the unions and corporations – might do so. But there is no such office. There is no source of power to implement a mandate. Name 20 union candidates or big corporations officiers who have run for President in Austria, Finland, Iceland, Singapore or Ireland. It is a wasted cost. Indeed, I can only think of one who was a quasi-unionist in her youth (she was a human rights lawyer, dipolmat and Professor of Law and the unions didn’t even fund her in the particular case I am thinking of). Given most directly-elected Presidents’ are dipolmats, Professors of Law, Physics, Biology, Economics, foreign languages or judges, lawyers, I see little reason why corporatists or unionists would be elected – UNLESS the President were to do what the Sovereign does not: advocate the fantastic quality of Australian mining companies (NB: Singapore the President cannot engage in commercial transactions).
And we have noted directly-elected Presidents’ are far cheaper than GGs ($5mv$12m), we noted in Austria the Federal President dissolves the state Parliaments (far cheaper than all the State Governors) and it is none of your business what people do with their bodies or their money, subject to innocent life issues (although let’s go along with your doomsday scenario: a) spending limits and caps can be easily introduced, and b)if money were spent by corporations, I think most people would be repulsed and would not vote for the person in question).
Yes, that is the my point – they are NOT a monopoly issuer of currency, but can always choose to be. A nation can always pick and swap its currency so no, you’re view on investmet is wrong: Ireland can technically default and meet alll obligations in its new currency. Germany honours its debts denominated in $US when it switched by to its Deutschmark currency.
I agree with the rest, but as for the above, I think your arguments are empirically questionable and highly spurious.
@ Publius, the economists are still more qualified to talk about Irelands problems than you or I.
What is the function of the President of Ireland? What’s their power? What’s the point of having them if they can’t act as a check and balance? I don’t like any institution to have too much power, whether its the courts, parliament or HOS. The HOS having the power to veto laws is a good thing.
I’ll be honest I don’t know every detail about Singapore’s government or their Presidents, why would I?
All any serious republican movement in Australia (e.g. ARM) has suggested is replacing the means that the GG is placed in power e.g. appointment or elected. Everything proposed has meant that the GG keeps their current powers, one of those to refuse to sign a law into being law. As such it makes perfect sense for mining companies to back a presidential candidate, and it makes perfect sense for candidates to run with a platform.
I don’t see how the cost of the GG is relevant. There is no reason to believe that the cost of the GG would be cheaper under a republic. They would still carry out the same role, undertake the same functions and live in the same homes. The only way you would make it cheaper is by reducing their work load. In fact it make more sense that under a republic the GG would be more expensive if elected by the people due to a higher public profile.
Ireland has a number of debts to pay off, it can’t say right I’m going to pay this off in Zimbabwean dollars. Even if they could all that would do is hurt further investment in their economy (at least for the median term). Furthermore they can’t change their currency as they are in the EU, and bound by contracts.
Well, no, they are not qualified, given they think the money supply is exogenous, believe (private) debt does not matter and all sort of wonderful theories devoid of reality they come up with (cf. Steve Keen’s comments on economists).
The Irish President officiates over appointments, does what the GG does and has some reserve powers with respect to dissolution. On one hand, you claim the President has a “mandate” (ambition counteracts ambition) but on the other he is not a check and balance. Which one is it? The latter, of course – he can theoretically dissolve Parliament just as the Austrian President can dismiss and appoint anyone he wants as PM (the reserve powers are just as broad), but he must be accountable to the people hath they ever to be excerised in an idiotic manner. The GG has no one to review his decisions (the Queen would refuse to involve herself). I personally prefer the powers of the Icelandic President, who has the power to refer a bill over to a referedum. Of course, the very specific model I advocate retains some administrative power (Austria/Iceland/Finland), but msot of these powers are delegated to the people themselves (Bavaria, Switzerland).
I’m simply making the observation DE in other places is cheaper; perhaps less costumes and the fact they have to account for outlandish expenditure at an election.
Zimbabwe’s problems, like with Weimar’s, are caused by supply side issues, not printing money. In fact, the money is often printed AFTER prices have risen to ridiclous levels (most of the currency going around didn’t even have enough zeros on it). Please see:
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=3773
Anyways, their problem is not inflation, but deflation. They can tell the EU to get stuffed; what is the EU going to do if they revert back to their own currency and issuing it? I recall their being exit clauses somewhere in that contract. Although frankly I couldn’t care less about Ireland, you know which countries I like.
To help your constitutional education, to get an idea what a President looks like please see:
a) Ireland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5zCaUc7PU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgU8mII1Ao&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVcOlJBppw
b) Austria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-E95z1TUgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5q-6TGt6uY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzcGIMSJ0pQ&feature=related
c) Finland & Iceland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxp5VI5UPL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2VuElk5_Bg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZjKfz5VFZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoRn-qWMvWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu48MbxYugM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46B8qCMtvr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMSWA-FKHRE&feature=related
Nobel Prize Winner and Former President of Finland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98MIKbxLnsI&feature=related
Ps. I thought this was quite funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpBGCoWfZlI&feature=related
I’m afraid I couldn’t let this one go through without some comment:
“So, Ireland’s non-membership of the Commonwealth is largely an accident of history that has never been corrected. The reason for this is something of a mystery,”
This would be an interesting proposition to put to someone like say, Eamon de Valera, I’m sure he would have been able to expound on it for a week or two. The statement is a complete misunderstanding of modern Irish history.
Just because some obscure politician in Ireland, who is obviously trying to get any publicity in his doomed campaign for President, makes a stupid point about Ireland joining the British Commonwealth, someone here takes it up and tries to turn it into a reason why Australia should become a Republic (which I agree to). It certainly makes Chaos Theory sound likely – the likelihood of that butterfly in the Amazon causing all those tornadoes in the US makes more sense than David Norris’s proposition.